National Smart Ticketing Advisory Board - Meeting Minutes - 10 September 2024

Attendees

Chair

• Dr Andrew Seedhouse: AS

Board Members:

• Claire Dickie: Rail Operator Representative CD
• *Michael Nimmo: Subway Operator Representative MN
• Hussein Patwa: Accessibility Representative HP
• Margaret Roy: Local Transport Authority Representative (ATCO) MR
• Ranald Robertson: Regional Transport Partnership Representative (RTP) RR
• Mary Docherty: Transport Scotland Representative MD
• Mostafa Gulam: Technical Systems Advisor MG
• *Kirsten Urquhart: Passenger Representative KU
• *James Gleave: Transport Strategy Advisor JG

Other attendees:

• Graeme Macfarlan: Bus Operator Representative (observer) GM
• Michael Philliben: Unicard MPh
• *Jan-Erik Anderson: Unicard JEA
• *Mike Sussman: Unicard MS
• *Alex Sbardella: Unicard ASb
• *Steve Holden: ITSO SH
• Bettina Sizeland: Director of Bus, Accessibility and Active Travel (Transport BS Scotland) (SRO)
• George Beale-Pratt: Sponsor (Transport Scotland)    GBP
• *Juliet Bell: Smart Programme Manager (Transport Scotland) JB
• Ronan Law: Project Support Officer (Transport Scotland) RL

* = attending virtually

Apologies

• Mark Speed: Observer for RTP MSp
• Marilena Papadopoulou: Tram Operator Representative MP
• Matt Smallwood: Smart Delivery Advisor MS
• Diane Burke: Ferry Operator Representative DB

Actions from last meeting

• MG declared conflict of interest for agenda item 6 as they are bidding for a piece of work for NSTAB. MG left the meeting early.

Actions updated in the table above.

Chair update

• AS provided an update to the Board:
• Alex Hornby has stepped down as bus operator representative due to leaving the bus industry in Scotland. Graeme Macfarlan standing in on a temporary basis until formal recruitment for the representative concludes.
• AS presented to the sustainable earth conference 2024. Included overview of work with NSTAB and U22 Scheme.
• AS took action to liaison with Project Coral who were supportive of any opportunity to expand Coral into Scotland. AS also clarified that the Department for Transport would cover the setup capital costs for Coral in Scotland with operators picking up revenue costs. However, NSTAB are unable to sign the letter of support at present as language is ambiguous. NSTAB want to be supportive but non-comital at this stage once we know final solution and specifications. Transport Scotland has received legal advice on the letter. AS clarified that NSTAB would sign the letter of support once suitable.
• AS presented at the CPT Annual conference in Glasgow.
• AS summarised the work STAG is doing to identify multi-modal digital ticketing standards. They have been awarded Catapult funding from the DfT to progress this work – primarily for commercial ticketing. MD stressed the significance of concessionary travel in Scotland and that it needs to be considered for the introduction of any standards.

Transport Scotland sponsor update

• GBP provided the Sponsor update.
• Submission provided to the Cabinet Secretary to confirm recruitment for the bus operator representative. Application process made slightly easier than last time, with 2 written application questions instead of 4. 
• NSTAB work programme now online on Transport Scotland website.
• Letter issued from the Cabinet Secretary to all public body Chairs which outlines the financial challenges facing the Scottish Government. Includes measures related to controlling discretionary spending, external recruitment, hospitality, events and travel.

Industry presentations

Unicard presentation:

• youtube.com/watch?v=HdMFI8Krwms
• MPh provided an overview of the work they have done to introduce contactless tap in tap out in south Wales for Transport for Wales. In summary, TfW are seeking to transition into a comprehensive multi-model ticketing service. Currently just on rail as there are some commercial challenges with integrating bus. Live pilot scheme running between Newport, Cardiff and Pontyclun launched in September 2023, launched to all customers in January 2024, and phased expansions to South Wales Metro area throughout 2024. The key lessons learned include:
• A clear vision, strong governance, and timely decision making from TfW were essential
• Open standards and integration beat proprietary interfaces and closed systems
• Scheme owner must legislate to be central fares engine; lack of data sharing from local PSPs and lack of commercial leverage has prevented multi-modal travel so far.
• HP – What is the reason why passengers must use their card first instead of mobile device for tapping? MPh stated the need for the account number on card, which isn’t available on mobile.
• MR – Have you got detail on what uptake has been? TfW will not be releasing statistics tuntil October 2024, but uptake is where they want it to be.
• MR – What customers are they hoping to reach? MPh stated that the core demographic are regular users, commuters and tourists. Passengers they can’t reach are concessionary users. Functionality is coming to incorporate railcards and other discounts. 
• MR asked if the intention is for the scheme to increase rail patronage. MPh confirmed that in theory it will increase patronage but yet to see statistics to prove that. Question of how much ticketing is stopping someone from using the train.
• MD – Scotland has a very generous travel scheme. How would you link the bank card to the user? MPh stated that there is a need a form of digital identification. Could use period identification on App. It is a question of convenience vs fraud tolerance. Not as straightforward as ITSO.
• CD – Did transport for Wales have challenges with their Equality Impact Assessment as cheaper fares are only available to those using tap in tap out? MD added the need to make sure everyone is treated equally and arguably, those most in need to cheaper fares are those that do not have access to bank cards. MPh said that Transport for Wales could provide further information on this.
• MG asked about children using tap in tap out and if there is an issue with tracking. MPh replied they would be using card anonymously and that if they have debit cards, they are allowed to make payments. There are however no child tickets yet in the tap in tap out system.
• Regarding multi modal travel, MPh added that they would like to see suppliers involved, incentivised or forced to work collaboratively as commercial challenges are limiting integration with bus. BS said they will take an action to explore the application of the lessons learned in Scotland.

 ITSO Roadmap presentation:

• SH provided an overview of the ITSO portfolio, specifications, and the ITSO Secure Application Modules (ISAMs). In summary, ITSO is a platform provides that provides a product and system for smart ticketing supporting both digital physical media. YOTRA provides digital mobile ticketing which is currently supported by Google Pay, included for Nexus and Swift schemes. The integration with Apple Wallet is ongoing, the development is done, but approval from Apple is still to be finalised.
• MN asked whether the new ISAMs can simply switch out the old ISAMs. SH clarified that yes, this is possible but the only difference is the configuration required in the HOPs. They have undertaken tests where ITSO have used physical and virtual products with updated ISAMs and the reader hasn’t noticed. High level of confidence it will be straight swap out.

Sectoral Update         

• AS – As time was running short, AS asked if members would like an additional session in advance of the November meeting to discuss quick wins. The Board agreed.
• MD added that there are still got lots of questions on the presentations that NSTAB has received, their suitability for Scotland, and how they relate to potential quick wins and the concessionary travel scheme. NSTAB needs to identify and deliver something that is tangible.
• CD asked what NSTAB can deliver? MR responded that quite a few local authorities are looking to franchising which would make integrated ticketing easier.
• CD added that the Board needs to come up with recommendations on a national smart ticketing system and what this means for operators and passengers. GBP clarified that the national system is a technological standards and not a specific ticket product. CD stated that that is open to interpretation and need to reinforce what’s in scope and what is out of scope. Would be good to see multi model ticketing progress in Wales and if it is successful there then that could demonstrate it is worth investing in.
• MD added that before we get to integrated ticketing the Board needs to consider the commercial agreements - fares need to be agreed and the timetables need to link. The heavy lifting needs to happen before smart ticketing integration.

Endorsement of procurement

• MG left the meeting prior to the discussion of procurement.
• AS provided an update on the procurement. There were multiple submissions and assessment work in ongoing to determine the best bid. AS sought approval from the Board to progress the procurement and select the best value for money bid.  Group approval.

Next steps & AOB

• NSTAB agreed to setup intermediary hybrid meeting for the morning of 4th October to discuss quick wins.